Margherita Fava
Good evening, and welcome back to On Keys, the show dedicated to all music that pianists and all other keyboardists have explored in the modern days. I'm your host Margherita Fava, and you're listening to WUT 91.9 FM, also streaming on WUOT.org. That was the famous standard on Green Dolphin Street, arranged and performed by Donald Brown from his 1995 piano solo album Piano Short Stories. Today we are talking to a special guest, Holly Bean, whose career almost started in the field of physics, but then took a very quick turn into jazz piano. And fast forward a few years later, she's now the first woman to ever have a Master degree in Jazz Piano from Julliard. So we have, as you probably can already tell, plenty to talk about. Let's go back to the beginning. You know, like, is there such a thing? Is there a Holly before the piano, or has that connection always been there from the very beginning?
Holly Bean
Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I think it's a very long story. It's a very complicated story, but I've always played piano. It was kind of my first love as a child. My parents put me in lessons when I was four for about a year. I don't remember much other than they wanted me to play the dots on the page exactly, and I really did not dig that at all. Nor was I very good at playing the dots, so I quit. And my parents, you know, they let me quit because they were worried that I would start to hate the piano, and I definitely didn't. I just kept playing on my own, and I would just always have music in my head, you know, just for as long as I can remember. I mean, the first tune I learned, I think I was three years old, and it was the little ballad from Disney's Little Mermaid. There was this note in it, and I didn't know what the black keys were, and I was driving myself nuts at three years old! Like why I couldn't find the right note! I didn't think it was on the piano. That was really funny. So I mean, I taught myself all growing up. I would just hear things. I guess when I started college, you know, for some reason I didn't really think about really thinking about going for music. It wasn't something that…my music teacher at the time in high school, she was very discouraging. You know, she was actually pretty, I think, harmful for my relationship with music, and she never brought it up to me. I didn't want to take theory because she taught it, and I kind of quit playing for a year and decided to focus on, you know, okay, well, “I want to study stars”, was the initial thought, you know. “I want to become an astrophysicist and I want to understand how stars work”. I just really thought physics was cool, and I had a very encouraging woman physics teacher in high school who was like, "Go for it, you know, do it, like you can." And that was the person at that time in my life that was telling me, you know, you can.
Margherita Fava
It’s so wonderful to see, like how important those people that tell you “you can do this” in early age, like they have such an impact on you know a young person's development. And speaking of people that said you can, when you transitioned to music, you met somebody that told you that you could do that! We are talking about Donald Brown, of course, who was your teacher at University of Tennessee. So, can we talk a little bit, like, what was like in those years, like going from a completely different background to just soak as much information as possible in the new vernacular? Talk a little bit about those days.
Holly Bean
My dad, who's actually a world-renowned chemist, and has always been very supportive of me, you know whatever crazy thing I've been into. He was actually the one that suggested music school, and I applied to UT because it was close to home. I didn't know what I was doing, so I didn't know about Donald. I didn't know about jazz. I didn't know anything. So when I showed up at UT, it was kind of exploratory at first, And it wasn't until I met Donald that I saw myself in what he was doing. It was like this crazy moment the first time I sat down in his. Office with him, and he played a little bit, and I was just thinking, like, you can play piano like that? Like without rules? What was that sound? And like immediately, I'm like, whoa, wait, what did you just play?? Because I mean, you know Donald, there's not a thing that comes out of his brain or onto the piano, you know, beneath his hands that isn't just profound. You will never hear Donald Brown play one boring note in your life. Everything that comes out of him is just fresh. It's like still to this day when I go and I see Donald, and I always try to go and visit him and get in a lesson whenever I can. You know, most of what he's doing just goes right over my head every time. And those first few lessons with him, I had no idea what was going on, but it was sort of like, you know, like when you poke your head up into this fabric of this totally different universe, and you're looking around, and yes, it's very overwhelming. But Donald had a way of inspiring me that I've never…I mean, I've just never been that inspired by anything in my life, really, before or since.
Margherita Fava
Like, if you have to make a short like three piece playlist from those days, what are some songs that come to mind?
Holly Bean
I think one of the first arrangements Donald taught me was his arrangement of On Green Dolphin Street from Piano Short Stories, and you know, I mean, the first thing he taught me, the very first thing, was how to play blues and F, and we learned Bag's groove, of course, and the very famous Donald Brown “Blues in F” solo. One of the first tunes that really, really spoke to me was Chick Corea's version of “My One and Only Love”. I found a printout of that transcription, and I remember just thinking like, oh my gosh, it's like, you know, my math homework is gonna be due, and someone just gave me all the answers! And of course, I couldn't really sight read, but you know that was the first time I think it connected visually. Like “this is what this looks like”, and also just being really fascinated with the cleanliness of Chick Corea's eighth notes, like the crispness of his playing, particularly on that recording.
Margherita Fava
And now, fast forward to your days in New York. Like, if you'd have to think about a couple songs to kind of summon the atmosphere of those days. You know, imagine your first arrival in New York. I have one song that is like what New York symbolized to me at the time, and it was Oliver Nelson "Midnight Blue." To me, that's what New York feels like in my ear. So I just wonder if you have a couple songs that immediately, if you hear them, your mind goes back there.
Holly Bean
When I first moved to New York, I had just auditioned for the Juilliard School for the first time, and I didn't get in. So what was really fresh in my head was all those audition tunes. So you know, we had Humpty Dumpty, we had Epistrophy. I remember listening to Eric Reed's version of Epistrophy from his record "The Baddest Monk." Eric Reed's Naima. I was listening to a lot of Eric Reed for some reason!
Margherita Fava
Shout out!
Holly Bean
Right! And then Aaron Goldberg's solo on Giant Steps. That's a good one. I had learned that solo. I think the tune that reminds me the most of that time when I first got there, and it's got to be old Milestones. It's such a good tune. I mean, it might be my favorite tune to play. It's just so fun. I loved it because it was one of those tunes that no matter what session I went to, as a little New York pianist who didn't know anybody, whenever I would call that tune, it would make people happy. Everybody loves to play that tune. Everybody knows it there, like it's never a problem, you know. So I would call that tune a lot. But I remember the first session I went to, I called Giant Steps really fast because, of course, you think, "All right, I got to prove myself," and it actually went pretty well. I think it could have gone pretty disastrously if I had, you know, folded. But don't go to New York and call Giant Steps unless you can really play Giant Steps! Or you've done that transcription or something, because as soon as you call it, you know everyone hates you. So you better make it really fun! You better just don't… just call old Milestones! But I think if I had to pick one that to me just encompasses the spirit of New York, it was what felt like, the tune that I left with in my head and in my hands, which is Donald's tune, New York. I had a conversation with him about that. That arrangement from T.S. Monk's record is just it was the most fun other thing I played during my time at Julliard, and talking with Donald about the meaning of that tune was just really relatable. It's overwhelming, it's loud, almost uncomfortable, but it's so exciting, it's so tipping that it almost carries you, and that's kind of how living there is. It's like you're just on the border of insanity all the time, but there's this excitement that just keeps pushing you forward. It's just kind of like that quarter note, and there's all these twists and turns and this crazy bridge. And then there's Geoff Keezer doing polyrhythms! That's New York to me for sure.
Margherita Fava
You know, one of the main perks of being in New York as a musician is that you have access to all these musicians, all these concerts, all the time. Is there a top three performance that you've seen in New York that you were like, I'm so glad I'm here in the room right now?
Holly Bean
You know, I worked at Birdland for several months. It was funny. I had just got back from a residency gig, and I had a show booked there. I was so excited, but you know, and of course, you're thinking in your head, "Oh, once I play at Birdland, I'll be fine, and I won't need to ask for gigs again." Not true, not true! You know, you've never arrived. But I ran out of money waiting for that gig, so I was emailing with the owner “by the way, can I have a job? “. And so I got to wait tables there for about six months. I ended up working there, and I just, I mean, I heard so much good music, and I got paid to listen to it too, which was just amazing. I remember, for some reason, this just this one sticks out first. There's a vocalist, Vanessa Rubin. She had a show that she was doing in the Birdland Theater, which is their basement venue, and boy, I just don't know if I've ever seen that level of storytelling in a vocalist live ever. It was just mesmerizing. Like you're just glued to your spot. You're just. I was absolutely transfixed with her delivery, and she sang Irving Berlin's "What'll I Do," and she gave us the full story about it. And then she sang the tune, and I just almost had this out of body experience. I could just see the Atlantic Ocean, you can see the story, you can feel the pain of these people in this story, that was a big one.
Margherita Fava
Let me ask you this: How about any performance of yours that stands out to you, like a musician that you got a chance to sit in with that really left a mark?
Holly Bean
You know, it was interesting when I first moved because you know it was the middle of the pandemic, June of 2020, and everybody was there because nobody was on tour. So, you know, by the time I had my own gig, all those cats were back out on tour, and it's interesting because a lot of my really formative experiences were playing with cats like, you know, Giveton Gelin and Russell Hall. I think those were the most formative for me because I had the most to learn when I first got there, and I really was just welcomed. I mean, you know, you're challenged. Yeah, I don't know. There was this one time that I sat in. I think it was like just my first few months there. I sat in with Jeremy Pelt. He probably doesn't even remember this, at the Django in the Roxy Hotel, and I can't even remember for the life of me what we played. But I just remember getting up off the bench, and for the first time in my life, I was like, I just I don't I don't think that sucked! Like it felt so good, you know. Especially when you sit in with cats at that level, all the music almost just picks you up and takes you with it. All you have to do is not, you know, leave yourself behind. Roll with the punches.
Margherita Fava
That's great. I mean, and again, those are the experiences that I'm sure you agree with, are just as valuable as a lesson, you know, if not more. What are some of the people that you got to spend the most time with at Juilliard, and what are some of the most valuable things that you got from that experience?
Holly Bean
My first year, I studied with Donald Vega exclusively, and then my second year, I was with Geoffrey Keezer. I learned that they're two entirely different pianists, people, and teachers. So that was cool because I got challenged from these two very different sides of the spectrum. I would say that Professor Vega and I had the least in common in terms of our approach to jazz, but that was, I think, really helpful for me because his strengths were my weaknesses, and that really was a healthy challenge for me to work on things like sight reading and technique. He really helped me with a lot of my left hand stuff. He has able to simplify really technically difficult things. I mean, you see him do it when he plays live. He just makes it look so easy. You know, getting to study with Keezer the next year was just really cool because obviously we have that shared bond being former students of Donald's, it was pretty cool. At the end of the year, my combo instructor Jennifer Krupa kind of made a joke while we were doing our Jazz Messengers music concert and she was like, "Well, I think Holly should say something during the concert." And I hated talking, but she was like, "I think you should say something because you're the only person in the room that has had two Jazz Messengers as your teachers!". And I really hadn't even thought about it, but it was really cool getting to work with Geoff, especially at that time when there was Messengers music programmed. One of our pianists played Waltz for Monk, which is a Donald tune as well. I played Theme for Malcolm, and it was so fun working with Geoff, you know he's a very blunt guy, but in a way that is just helpful, in the sense that he was never, never pretending to be oblivious to the disparity between the playing field I was on and the playing field that the men were on. It was weird, especially being the first woman to get that degree in that program. It was strange, and you know things like that. We would just have really good little discussions, and he would hear me out. But sometimes his opinion would not change, and you know I would always take his advice. I mean, he's Geoffrey Keezer!
Margherita Fava
Personally, there are certain things about my hometown and just my culture that I failed to appreciate while I was there, and they then became clear as soon as I left. Not actually not as soon, but like after a while that I left. So I wonder if while you were in New York, you learned to appreciate any parts of Tennessee by being away?
Holly Bean
Definitely. The first year is just kind of a high. You just want to go to every concert, you want to go to every session, you want to meet every person. You know, you want to go to everybody's gig. It's just like nonstop, and then you know I got a little tired. I remember after the end of my first year, it was the second wave of COVID. The gigs were really slowing down, and I took a break. I went and did a residency gig for a few months in Michigan, and you know when I came back, it was great. I had been practicing a lot. I had my show at Birdland. I debuted at Django. You know, I got to do those shows with Joe Farnsworth and Alex Claffy. After about maybe three years of being in town, I started kind of having this ache, and it's really fascinating to me how gradually it seemed to grow. It wasn't just one day I started missing home and then moved back. It was very gradual. I grew up in the mountains in East Tennessee on a mountain, like in the trees, in the dirt in the forest, and the detachment from nature for me was definitely the hardest thing of all. Just not being able to go outside and experience the earth. It's sort of like you know, in East Tennessee, when you step outside, the first thing you notice is the earth, and then there's you know some buildings on it. In New York you step outside, you don't even see the earth! We could be on the moon, like we could be on a big spaceship. You know you're in Central Park, the New York lovers who don't understand, they're like: “what do you mean there's no nature here? Haven’t you seen Central Park? I'm like “that's cute, yeah, I've seen it”. Like you get to know all the little secret nooks that you think no one knows about: that's everyone's secret nook. That's like 8 million people's secret nook. And another thing I noticed when I moved back was just how nice the people are here. I don't necessarily agree with certain views that are a little more southern than you know everyone in New York. I think I got along pretty well with pretty much everybody up there in terms of views and things and perspectives. But as far as you know, just kindness between strangers…like good luck trying to get that in New York! And the first time I went to the grocery store after I moved back to Tennessee, this lady was starting up this whole conversation with me, and the lady in the aisle got into the conversation, and I…
Margherita Fava
Just the New York person's worst fear!
Holly Bean
Oh gosh, yeah! There's an unspoken agreement of “non-speaking”! But here, you know, I remember just walking out of that Kroger and feeling so warm and fuzzy, and I was like, wow, I forgot that you know strangers or people will just smile at you for no reason.
Margherita Fava
And that was the lovely Kacey Musgraves singing “Slowburn”, and right now you might be a bit confused about the programming on this jazz piano-focused radio show…but if you keep listening, I promise you it will all make sense!
And now let me ask you this: like we talked about, you know, a lot of different influences in your music, and like a lot of different educational pivotal recording of yours, but I'm curious, what is an artist that you love that you think people might be surprised to find out that you listen to this artist?
Holly Bean
Kacey Musgraves. Yeah, Kacey is my favorite non-jazz musician, hands down. I mean when I say non-jazz, I think of everything from Moonchild to Weather Report to Erykah Badu, even Michael Jackson, Earth, Wind, and Fire. You know, I feel them in the same family as I feel jazz. But as far as just being totally outside, you know, totally. I feel like any jazz musician saying they listen to Moonchild or Weather Report isn't surprising anybody. But I was always really scared for people in New York to find out…like I didn't want them to know that I was obsessed with Kacey Musgraves. I just really admire her songwriting, the harmonies in her tunes make a lot of sense. The musicians in her band are just always incredible. You can hear the musicality. Her music breathes, every song is like an organism, and her phrasing is just insane. Sometimes I feel like I'm crazy when I'm trying to explain to another jazz musician “listen to that again, listen to her say that again”. Like you know, if Kacey was a jazz musician, she'd be the most lyrical, the most adorable little solos, she'd be so fun to watch when she was improvising, she leaves so much space, she puts the notes and the words exactly where they feel like they're meant to go. There's nothing too much, you know, in her music, and every tune really tells a story that I've always just found personally very deeply relatable. So absolutely, would be her.
Margherita Fava
It's just like Duke Ellington would say: “There's no different genres of music, just good music and the other kind”. So now you're back in Nashville. I mean, back in Tennessee. You're back in Tennessee in Nashville. What are some things that you look forward to in the future? What are some things that are inspiring you nowadays? Or what are some projects that you have going on?
Holly Bean
There are a couple of my heroes, rhythm section players in New York, who have reached out to a producer who I've been speaking with about making a debut record of mine. So that is both terrifying and I think amazing, and I think it's the right time. Yeah, and as far as you know, being down here and having new sorts of inspiration, one thing that I've noticed about the scene in Nashville that's really cool, I would call the music scene in terms of labels and genre very unpretentious here. I mean, in New York, there's one type of pizza, and it's good pizza. It's my favorite kind of pizza, but there's only one kind, and everyone says this is the best.
Margherita Fava
That's a good way to put it.
Holly Bean
If you zoom out, I could get shot for saying this, but it's okay because you know they're really far away from me now! If you zoom out really far and look at the New York jazz scene, there's really mainly one type of thing going on, and that's bebop. That's straight ahead, and I mean, that's my bread and butter. That's what we do. But sometimes, you know, I have interests outside of that, and that was something like listening to Kacey Musgraves, or like, you know, having interests. I love nature. I love going hiking. And something that I noticed that I did not have in common with most of my colleagues and peers in New York was that I had other interests outside of just straight ahead bebop. And something I like about Nashville is that all the musicians here seem to do a little bit of everything, and I've already been challenged in a lot of different ways by the music scene that's here. You know, I've played on country gigs. I know what pedal steel guitar is now! I've been on gospel gigs. You know, I learned a whole bunch of tribute music for a Billy Joel concert, and you know there's straight ahead jazz too. I played this gig the other week and this guy that had a binder of all these super deep cut Wayne Shorter tunes, and that was just the whole gig.
Margherita Fava
Wait a second! Is that guy David Williford? Yeah, I know the binder!
Holly Bean
Shout out! I was like “this is cool, man”. I didn't know what to expect. So that's the fun thing about Nashville. When you show up to a rehearsal, you show up to a gig, you never really know what to expect. And in New York I think I got kind of into my comfort zone, and I've been having to step outside of that here because things function differently. And I, I think that, you know, I already am starting to feel like a much more well-rounded musician because of that. You know, just kind of getting out of that little bubble I was in. It's really just two different sides of the blues, and that's really cool for me. And listening to these musicians who are also masters of their instrument, just like the cats in New York are, but in a different language.
Margherita Fava
Right!
Holly Bean
That's cool. And kind of getting a broader picture of American popular music. It really all just comes down to the Blues. So that's what I like about Nashville I think.
Margherita Fava
That's a very profound note to end on: it all comes down to the Blues. Thank you so much, Holly. This has been great, and yeah, like we can't wait to have you back in Knoxville. We look forward to hearing you play soon, and thank you for listening to On Keys.
