Margherita Fava
Good evening, and welcome back to On Keys, the show dedicated to all instrumentalists and composers that use keyboards, here on WUOT 91.9 FM, also streaming on wuot.org. I'm your host, Margherita Fava, and today I have the pleasure to share with you a lovely chat I had with another amazing artist. That was her you just heard in a duo with drummer Matt Wilson playing the iconic composition by Thelonious Monk Bemsha Swing. Ladies and gentlemen, let me introduce you to Dawn Clement.
Today we have the pleasure of talking to Dawn Clement, pianist, vocalist, songwriter, composer, current director at the prestigious jazz camp, Jazz at Port Townsend and associate professor at MSU Denver, teaching jazz piano. We are also fortunate enough to welcome her here in Knoxville this Sunday, April 26th for a concert at the Regas Square, the final concert for this season of Live at Lucille’s, organized by the Knoxville Jazz Orchestra in collaboration with PBS: Sunday, April 26th at 7:30pm, tickets are still available on knoxjazz.org. Welcome Dawn. What do you think you can share with us about the program and the lineup for this Sunday?
Dawn Clement
I'm so looking forward to joining a long time cohort collaborator, someone I've known maybe over half my life, if that doesn't date me too much…but bassist, Jon Hamer (and I), we had a long stint in Seattle, playing in lots of different settings together, so I'm very much looking forward to joining Jon on bass, and we have the wonderful drummer Quentin Baxter from Charleston joining us on drums. I had some time with Quentin and Renee Marie's band, and it's a dream trio. I'm so excited to be featuring some new material, and the material that's going to be released this spring on a Blossom Dearie project, among other things, and it's my first time to Tennessee and my first time to Knoxville, and there's been quite a connection there with some colleagues here in Colorado and students who have come to Jazz at Port Townsend. So I'm really looking forward to it.
In 2024 you recorded a project with the bassist, Jon Hamar and another UT alumni that you're probably referring to, Steve Kovalchek on guitar. So I wanted to ask you: how did that collaboration first get started?
That's a great question. As I mentioned, you know, Jon and I have known one another for a long time. I got to play on one of his earlier records. I don't remember the year, but a long relationship of music building and collaboration. When I first moved to Colorado, Jon said “you've got to meet this guitarist”. He'd been plugging Steve even before my move! “You got to hear this guy, you got to meet this guy, you got to play with this guy”. So I really owe it to Jon for introducing me to Steve, and we, all three of us, started talking about doing something. And you know how busy life is, and everyone has such multifaceted schedules, and it just lined up at that particular time to go record at UNC, a drummer-less trio. We all brought original material and the vibe and the dynamic and the music was just a dream come true. So I owe that to Jon. You know, Steve's now one of my favorite musicians as well, and I have utmost respect for both of them.
And how did the music for that project come about? Did you all contribute on the composing side? How did that work?
We all brought some pre existing compositions with elements that really enhanced and helped surface each player's, you know, unique voice. But I think it's very special. And in the moment, I don't think I realized, you know, just how great it was going. Recording projects can take all different kinds of shapes and forms. And I remember that day, I drove out to Greeley, which is about an hour, and I had to bring two of my children with me, and I set them up with a game out in the hall. And I, you know, I had, I had pre planned. We had been talking about the music and said what we were going to do. But once we got in there, the focus was so right, you know, it felt so right and very directed, and we all contributed equal parts, and you know, pretty thoughtfully for one another.
You just heard a track from Dawn’s latest album, that was the title track for the project entitled Outreach. Your latest album features another incredible trio, another friend, long term collaborator of yours, drummer Matt Wilson and jazz messenger Buster Williams on bass.
Can you believe that?
It's pretty, pretty great. I mean, I can't believe it, because after hearing the record, it makes perfect sense. But I'm just wondering, like, you know, what was the chemistry of that trio like, and what was the recording process.
It's beautiful. That trio is so special. It's a legacy band. You know, we've got three different generations just about and Matt, as you know, is very effervescent, and he knows everyone. And for years, he's like “you gotta meet Buster, I gotta introduce you to Buster, Buster’s gonna love you”. We got it! So that finally happened. Matt made the introduction, and Buster and I definitely hit it off that record. It was a little funny. You know, we plan to record in January, and there was a big power outage, so we had to postpone, and I had been leading up to January, I had been really carefully writing for Buster. I called George Cables. I'm like “what's he gonna like?”. You know? I mean, I've listened to him on so many records. You know, “what kind of basslines?”. George and I were talking about things that would be suitable, and all that kind of changed when we had to reschedule. It gave me a little more room and a little more breath with the music, and it was just, I can't put my finger on how it feels, and getting kind of goosebumps, but just entering sonic space with both of them, and the way they both invite, you know and welcome and offer, again, a short session, a day long. But Buster just threw down and put himself right into that. And we've had a chance to perform that music a couple times. We'll be doing that again in June at the Rochester Jazz Festival, and I'm excited to try some new things with them as well. But talk about someone who's played everything under the sun and still, you know, shows up just ready for anything you throw at him. You know, we had a great time.
But then you have one more project, one of my favorite ones of yours, entitled Tempest/Cobalt, where we get to hear your more songwriting side. And I was like, I love it. I feel like all my favorite musicians do all sorts of kinds of music, and proudly, you know. And so can you tell us more about this project? What is the inspiration behind it?
Can I just say thank you for checking that one out. You're pulling out the archives. I'm really proud of that project.
I bought it.
Oh, you are so kind. My goodness, I, you know, in my 30s, I had a lot of identity crisis going on as a musician. You know, that's why I waited a little bit to get another degree. So I was getting my master's in composition. You know, I was like, wait, “I play jazz”, wait, “I play for ballet”. Wait, “I love writing tunes”, but wait, “I love singing”, you know? And I was actually having a crisis, and a friend of mine just said “come on, you do you, there's only one YOU, no matter what, what you're doing, it's going to be your voice”, and I just like, you know, I don't think I'm going about ever trying to sound like myself or have my own voice, but I definitely struggled with the genre I was in, or what territory I should lean into, or, you know, “what am I doing?”. That's the first project where I really had been writing songs, and I had been for years, and it took a little bit of boldness and some courage. Friend of mine, Charlie Smith, we went to college together way back, way back in the 1900s…and Charlie, at the time, was working at a studio downtown Seattle, and it's the first time I've spent just hours exploring sounds on keyboards, exploring and doing multiple vocal takes coming with initial songs and initial game plan, and then having the song expand from there with the resources in the studio. And I'm not trying to speak in such basic terms, I know, I know some incredible producers, and I know that process is incredible and special, you know, another friend of ours, John Solo. He's an awesome producer. I got to work with him on Islands (another album by Clement), which was a COVID project of songs, but Tempest/Cobalt…I was highly inspired by my little baby at the time, and I was feeling shy, but also courageous to put some songs out there. And it's the first time we took time to try things, part of the composition of the song, and the evolution of the song was in the studio.
And the song you just heard was an original by Dawn entitled At Least from her singer songwriter project Tempest/Cobalt. And actually, I mean, you kind of already started talking about it, but I think it would be really cool for our listeners since you know, you've been again in the studio in a one day session with Buster Williams and Wilson, and then this project…could you talk about the differences of what it's like to record a jazz project versus a more like songwriting or pop project?
I love that. I think there are differences and similarities. Yeah, I really like that. The pop project felt almost like slowed down improvisation. I care more, not per se, but more thought in terms of layers and shape and kind of the long game of how that can look in a composition. Whereas a day with a band, you're reacting, you're taking a chorus or two, you're wanting to get your best take, but you're trying to capture that magic in a bottle. You know, you're trying to capture the aura and the spirit and the essence of what it's like to be social with other musicians and dialoguing, right? And the songwriting project, I mean, we had an amazing guest come play guitar, bass, Lena Simon, but for the most part, I played everything you know? And Charlie would double a couple things and interject, and we kind of had this open canvas so different in terms of really slowed down layering and a slowed down way of practicing composing or improvising, right? There was no real rush to it, because we were like, what does this need? Now, you know, like, some of those songs I had, like, sketched, you know, a few bars on or I just had lyrics, and I'd been playing it on piano, and it turned out nothing, you know, absolutely stark contrast from the original idea of the song, which has made me appreciate albums so much more, especially heavily produced things where you're listening for “oh, my God, they use that little sample there”. Or, “oh, you hear how the tone of the vocals”, you know. Like on one tune, Charlie sampled my voice, put it into the keyboard, and I use that, like there was so much fun there and so much kind of possibility to create, but it felt slowed down, whereas when I'm playing a tune with others, it's almost more about the conversation, and not that it's rushed, but really it's responding and music making in real time. So maybe that's the difference. The similarity is, I think that it still comes from the same place. So sometimes, when I'm working with students, even on improvising, I'll have them play some ideas and transcribe that back. And I do that too, you know, but to have them consider it being okay to not, not even just slow things down, but to take time and put things in real time. And if that requires some analysis, great. If that requires more objectivity, great, but we want to be able to see a reflection in the mirror and make some decisions based on that, and then let that go, right? So I think sometimes the pop song process for Islands too, it feels almost like slowed down improvisation. If that makes any sense, it’s still coming from the same place. It's still like, for the moment, trigger ideas. “What do I hear here?”. “What needs to happen here?”. But in the grand scheme of things, layers and more time and the shape of it, I think, just evolves in a different way.
That was a track entitled Underneath. We're now going to take a short break, but don't go anywhere, because I have a few more questions to ask Dawn and you might be surprised by her answers. You're listening to On Keys here on WUOT, 91.9 FM, also streaming on wuot.org. Welcome back to On Keys here on WUOT 91.9 FM. I'm your host, Margherita Fava, and today I'm talking with pianist and composer Dawn Clement. You know your discography is so broad. Does it feel to you like putting different hats on, or do you still feel equally yourself in any of these projects?
I like “hats”. “Hats” is accurate, but that's accurate for life. I wear a lot of hats. You know, again, I think that is referring back to that identity crisis. I'm really trying to own each, each and everything that I'm doing. And sometimes I think all of us struggle with, man, I've got so much on my plate, I don't feel like I'm even doing any one thing 100% you know, and then you take a step back, okay? How can I, you know, create space for this to be a better balance? And what do I want to put my energy into right now? Or what is this season calling for this season in life, and I'm still learning that, and I'm not great at that, but I am working on it musically. I feel I don't feel disconnected or now this is done this, and now this is because whatever I'm doing, I've hopefully thought about it, and I'm in the moment, and I'm, you know, when I'm either making music or creating it with others, there's a certain kind of presence and like in the moment, like I said, you can't even put your finger on we can't even feel that. It's intangible. And so I try to treat everything like and if this is the last time I get to do this, I got to be all the way there, no matter what style, no matter what song, no matter who's band. And so I'm feeling less and less like it's a different hat. And I love hats, and I love trying on different hats. Trying to just be really committed in the moment, no matter what it is, and making good decisions on the balance and what I'm committing to.
I'm curious. Like, where do you see yourself going next? Like, what is your next project gonna look like? Do you already have an idea?
Man, I think about it all the time. Getting older…there are some positives that come with that, like not caring what people think as much anymore. That feels really good. I wish I had that when I was 17. But also, you know, I think our world is in need of some of what we're doing even more than any other time. You know. And I try to think about my goals and what I want to be doing for the next five to 10 years. One of them was to get to play with some of these legacy artists like Buster. And it's a journey, right? It's not an arrival. It's not like, Okay, done. Arrived. It's like, this is part of the journey. What am I learning from getting to do that? And how can I continue to create opportunities for that to happen? Because it's such a sacred space and it's so important. But with young folks too. I say young folks, man, I sound so old, right? Like every generation, I meet so many musicians, and I get to work with, you know, so many musicians, like high schoolers, middle schoolers, who you know, when they're bringing themselves so fully to it. It's so exciting because it's a sign of the music continuing, you know, and you ask, what I see next for myself? Well, this seems to be a season of documenting a lot of music, and I haven't always been able to do album after album. A lot of times like, wait about seven years between records, you know. But a couple of years ago, Jeff Hamilton whispered to me, “Who’s playing brushes on your Blossom Dearie record?”. And I was like, Oh, guess that's next. And, you know, by default, and maybe you found this too. I've been playing her music for years. It's kind of been a token thing, like, oh, play and sing. You want to do some Blossom Dearie, you know? But Jeff said that, and it got me going on a real deep dive into some albums I hadn't checked out, some tunes that she did that I wasn't even aware of, and a lot that I had done, but more like I said, as token songs on gigs that were just covers, you know. And so one album that I just really love has Ed Thigpen and Ray Brown and Kenny Burrell. And so I started dreaming about that. You've already mentioned several of these recording projects of mine. They've all been very original, very, you know, kind of like personal projects. So we recorded last May with John Clayton and Jeff Hamilton and Steve Kovalchek again, and I arranged all these Blossom’s tunes. And it's all tunes, you know, and it's very much straight ahead, for lack of a better description. But, man, it was such a cool thing to explore and to arrange for those guys and to save up and plan and craft for that. So that'll be out in May. I'm excited for you to hear it. It's called Dear Ms Dearie, and it's less of a tribute. It's more of a love letter to Blossom like she's in the mix. Yeah, such a fine time doing it, and we're hoping to do some gigs with that music in the next couple years.
And that was Blossom Dearie singing They Say It ‘s Spring from the session Dawn was just telling us about featuring Ed Thigpen, Ray Brown and Kenny Burrell. And now talking about one of your many hats, the hat of the educator. You've been an associate professor at MSU Denver for quite some time now, and I'm wondering, what are some of the most rewarding aspects of your job and some of the most challenging ones?
Hmm, yeah, good question. I think it's really rewarding when a student finds confirmation and, you know, ultimately reward in tangible growth, when they see growth in themselves and feel accomplished and feel like they've had that light bulb moment and they've completed what they set out to do. A lot of times, we're working with students and individuals on a lot of different spectrums, demographically and economically and at different stages in life. Some of our students are caregiving for family members. Most of my students work, you know, more than one job. I teach at a commuter school. We have a lot of real life moments. And I think the reward is also the struggle. Sometimes I think it's rewarding when I hear a student talk about something they can see themselves doing in the music world, you know, whether that's performing or one of the other 35 hats they could wear in the music world. You know, I'm very, very proud of students who finish and who give recitals and graduate, because a lot of times that means they've put themselves through school, you know, and that that takes a lot, and I think it's really brave to choose something in the arts for your education. So those are the rewards. I think the challenges are also those same things, just encouraging students to stick with it, to help them build goals, to figure out ways to relate to the material and the content and make it relatable and realistic and possible. And help them dream up how they're going to do that, and help them execute it. The self doubt and the self critical bubbles that I see students get in that can be really challenging, and it's the thing to lean into. You know, I had a real “Whiplash teacher” in my early formative days, and I credit him teaching me how to swing. But those were hard days, like, man, you don't want to get bullied to do this, you know. And so for a long time, I think I swung way to the other side of the spectrum in love and kindness and oh, and that was great. And you can do this. So my students watching this are probably gonna be like “oh brother…” But I think I'm trying to find now a way of balancing giving accolades, but not over the top, like that was okay, you know, self reflection, you hear this, and how we're going to work on this, you know, along with a lot of praise, but praise where it's due, you know, because the hardest thing sometimes is to learn how to work on this and learning how to have good habits and habits that pay off and reap the benefit of your hard work.
The last hat that I want to discuss of your many hats, you recently took over a position that was previously filled by none other than John Clayton as director of the prestigious jazz camp at Port Townsend in Washington. So you know, you're filling pretty big shoes there, but I just wanted to see if you could help us, like, shed some light on what is being the director of such a successful Jazz Camp?
It is humbling, and it's a I respect the responsibility so much, and I respect John Clayton so much. Gigantic shoes is an understatement. You know, he has just an amazing legacy. It's in a camp I attended as a high schooler, and you know, seeing it in Bud Shanks’ hands, and then seeing it in John's hands, and being a student, and then being accompanist, and then getting to teach some and just watching his grace and poise and his leadership and a vision is just ultimately humbling and inspirational. That particular workshop has just a piece of my heart, it feels like home. So I took that on with very much sober respect and humbleness and a willingness to learn and a willingness to embrace the idea that you can't please everyone and you've got to make decisions, and also still really trying to excite students to come. That's all tricky. There's a higher frame of mind as a visionary that I'm also trying to learn, because a lot of times I'm good at the logistics of things. And, you know, even at my job, there's some administrative tasky stuff, you know, answering, scheduling, planning events, that stuff. I actually kind of like it. I'm good at it, but I think the Centrum gig (Jazz at Port Townsend) also includes a bigger picture and a bigger vision. And it's been so much fun to work on. Feels like a giant puzzle. And you know, it starts on the last day of the last festival, and it goes all year, and as we get closer, we're putting those pieces in. And there's something very stimulating, you know, and I know I'm not perfect, and I know I'm not doing it right. I know not everything is 100% correct, but it's been a really humbling process and very stimulating. And it's exciting to dream big and to think three to four years what we can do over the shape of that and folks that we can introduce to that world and vice versa, and then also some legacy artists that we just love, having returned you know, who come from The tradition that we just so love and admire and spend half our lives on. And it's been great, been humbling and awesome.
And that's the end of the show for today. If you want to meet Dawn and hear her music live, come to Regas Square this Sunday, April 26th at 7:30pm, tickets are still available at knoxjazz.org. Up next at 9pm Randy Fishman with Last Set at Birdland. I will be here next week with more music for you ears, in the meantime thank you for listening and have a great night here on WUOT. Ciao!
