MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
The drug kingpin known as El Mencho is dead. He and dozens of others were killed in a Mexican military operation against his Jalisco New Generation Cartel. Such is the power of that organization that his death has set off violent demonstrations in multiple Mexican states, cartel members blocking roads, setting fire to vehicles and to businesses. We're going to hear more about the organization from Steven Dudley. He's an expert on criminal groups in Latin America and co-founder of the think tank InSight Crime. Steven Dudley, welcome.
STEVEN DUDLEY: Thank you for having me.
KELLY: So I just raised the violence that has followed this raid. Is that something you would have expected? What sticks out to you?
DUDLEY: I think with this group, you would have expected it. This is a group that has a presence in as many as 20 Mexican states. It is a group that has shown itself to be incredibly violent, both against its rivals and against the state. And it is a group that is structured very hierarchically and has a lot of coordination. So they illustrated that in the last 24 hours.
KELLY: And just to be clear, we're not talking about just blocking a few roads. We're talking about shutting down cities.
DUDLEY: In some respects, shutting down cities. We should be careful, though, because they really didn't hit any hard targets. So they didn't go after any military installations or police headquarters or anything like that. So a lot of this is about fear, controlling space. It's about issuing sort of a implicit statement that they're still there.
KELLY: Did anything leap out or catch your eye in terms of how they did this? I was reading a lot about the use of drones, for example, over the weekend.
DUDLEY: This has been part of their playbook for a while now. They have makeshift almost like dump trucks that they've fastened into tanks in some spaces. In some areas of Mexico, for years now, there have been almost what you would call frontline battles. All of this is part and parcel of what they are, which is what has made them the most formidable drug organization in Mexico for a while now.
KELLY: And tell us about the leader. He was widely known as El Mencho. What should we know?
DUDLEY: He's a person who's been in this trade for decades and really grew up in what is and has become the heart of the most important criminal economy in Mexico, which is the methamphetamine trade. We think of fentanyl, we think of cocaine. Both of those are very important and certainly were part of the Jalisco cartel's criminal economies. But the most important one is methamphetamine, and that's because use of methamphetamine in the United States is also at all-time highs and far surpasses, for example, our use of cocaine. So this has become the preeminent drug.
He was at the heart of it, and his operation was at the heart of it. And he died in those very same areas where much of the meth is produced and then exported to places like the United States. So this is really the sort of core of what he was and the legacy that he leaves.
KELLY: So this is someone who both the government in Mexico and here in the United States would have been happy to see removed from directing the action?
DUDLEY: Yes. And this also comes with complications. What we've seen in the past, both in Mexico and other places in the region, is that when you eliminate a leader of this stature from an organization that is as hierarchical as the Jalisco cartel is, you leave a bunch of other groups. Mostly, what happens is the main group atomizes, and you don't have one group or one formidable group. Now you have a half dozen or more. They're fighting amongst themselves. They're fighting rivals. They're fighting the state. So in some instances - in fact, in most instances - this has complicated the battles against organized crime.
KELLY: Oh, that's interesting. So you're describing a successful military operation can take out the kingpin, but the cartel doesn't just disappear. It splinters, and in some ways, that makes the challenge harder?
DUDLEY: Very much so. We've seen this play out in places like Colombia, where the United States has long had a presence and has assisted the government in their efforts. And we've seen it in other places like Ecuador, Guatemala. This is the sort of normal process, but it doesn't mean the end of these organizations or the splinter groups that follow. So it's just another chapter.
KELLY: Steven Dudley is co-founder of InSight Crime. Thank you.
DUDLEY: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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